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Knights of Reason - Forums • View topic - Homosexuality
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Homosexuality

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Nazgul

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Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 2:20 pm

Re: Homosexuality

1 Corinthians 6:9: "Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders".

Even though this is not in the Gospels, it is in the New Testament, and even though all these books are written by humans, it is written under the power of the Holy Spirit.

And true Christians believe in the Bible as a whole, we believe that all of it is true and that it is God's Word.



John 1:1 "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."
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Aaron5367

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Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:00 pm

Re: Homosexuality

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Nazgul

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Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:55 pm

Re: Homosexuality

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Post Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:52 pm

Re: Homosexuality

T'hanks Nazgul! You pretty summed it up for me.

This debate is realy interesting. It's cool to see the arguments both for and against homosexuality. (And/Or the Bible)
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Aaron5367

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Post Tue Jul 06, 2010 4:11 pm

Re: Homosexuality

Topic split, if you wish to discuss the bible, see "The Bible."
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Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:06 am

Re: Homosexuality

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Aaron5367

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Post Wed Jul 07, 2010 6:29 pm

Re: Homosexuality

I found this video and I was quite surprised.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lSfFa44p ... re=related

Edit: my point for posting it is that it refutes several points made in this thread.
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BigWimply

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 7:47 pm

Homosexuality

===========New topic merged by Aaron===========

Do you believe it is okay or not?

I personally believe it is as acceptable to be gay as it is to be straight. Maybe you were born that way, maybe something influenced you, but it's fine either way with me.
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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:26 pm

Re: Homosexuality

I'm okay with people being homosexual in orientation as long as they don't go out of their way to get in my face about it.

For example, I'm okay with two guys being together and walking down the street. What I'm not okay with is when I so much as look in their direction and they make a scene about it.
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MeatWad490

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:47 pm

Re: Homosexuality

Back then some of you remember my behavior towards it and I felt bad about it later on.

It really doesn't bother me as long as the person of the same sex is making a move towards me. If two gay people want to be miserable in marriage I say just let them.
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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 8:58 pm

Re: Homosexuality

I honestly don't give a fuck about homosexuality in general. Nor do I believe that anybody who isn't homo SHOULD give a fuck about it. It's not exactly something for society to decide, it's really up to the individual to decide their own sexuality. It should also be their responsibility to keep their sexuality to themselves. If they go around acting blatantly gay, it's really their own faults if they get barraged with hate from all directions.

It's like if you just saw a straight couple sitting in the middle of the public park or something sucking face with each other, some person walking by might call out "HEY, GET A ROOM!". If you saw a gay couple doing the same thing, you might be just as disgusted.

i mean... Faggots are fucking gay dude. why would you even bring that up?
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Alex

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:16 pm

Re: Homosexuality

i have to agree with nicholas, he's absolutely right saying that homosexuality should be treated exactly the same as heterosexuality (at least that's how i understand his post)
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Axis

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 9:46 pm

Re: Homosexuality

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maro_1

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:14 pm

Re: Homosexuality

I'm completely fine with whatever sexuality someone has, love is love, no matter the gender, race, or religion. As long as they are comfortable with what they choose.

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Shadow

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Post Mon Nov 26, 2012 11:32 pm

Re: Homosexuality

Image Image
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Nazgul

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 12:47 am

Re: Homosexuality

Okay, I'll differ.

I believe homosexuality is wrong.
The simplest reason is clearly to say that the Bible says it is. And I should start there; and if I go deeper, that's good.
I think it's implied clearly and spoken clearly in and that homosexuality is wrong and to be avoided.
Now, that's just the "It's wrong, don't do it" authority answer. The question "Why would the Bible say that?" is also multi-layered.

1) The Bible sets up at the beginning that a man and a woman become one flesh. That's God's way of doing sexuality. It's a man and a woman created in beautifully complementary ways so that they form one flesh. And to try to do it another way is a distortion. It's a corruption. It's a dysfunction of the way God made it.
2) As I reflect on and the way it unpacks the problem with homosexuality, it appears to me that it is saying something like this: When you exchange the glory of God for idols(things you treasure and prize more deeply than God), the main one that you exchange the glory of God for is yourself. The idol that you have is yourself. Well, what sex is yourself? My sex is male. If you're a woman reading this, your sex is female. And it seems to draw out the fact that in exchanging God for our most cherished idol, which is usually self, we are prone to fall in love with the same sex.

The deepest thing that I've ever hit upon for why God would disapprove of this is not just that the Bible says "Don't do it," and not just that God created male and female. Deep down there is a kind of idolatry (self-love) involved in same-sex relationships that is very profound.
The deepest problem of our lives, whether heterosexual or homosexual, is the terrible exchange of the glory of God for images. The exchange of the truth of God for a lie. The disapproval of having God in our knowledge. Failed worship is our worst disorder. This is beneath all the maladies of the world.
The reason Romans 1 focuses on homosexuality in these verses is because it is the most vivid dramatization in life of the profoundest connection between the disordering of heart-worship and the disordering of our sexual lives.

We learn in that, from the beginning, manhood and womanhood existed to represent or dramatize God's relation to his people and then Christ's relation to his bride, the church. In this drama, the man represents God or Christ and is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. The woman represents God's people or the church. And sexual union in the covenant of marriage represents pure, undefiled, intense heart-worship. That is, God means for the beauty of worship to be dramatized in the right ordering of our sexual lives.

But instead, we have exchanged the glory of God for images, especially of ourselves. The beauty of heart-worship has been destroyed. Therefore, in judgment, God decrees that this disordering of our relation to him be dramatized in the disordering of our sexual relations with each other. And since the right ordering of our relationship to God in heart-worship was dramatized by heterosexual union in the covenant of marriage, the disordering of our relationship to God is dramatized by the breakdown of that heterosexual union.

Homosexuality is the most vivid form of that breakdown. God and man in covenant worship are represented by male and female in covenant sexual union. Therefore, when man turns from God to images of himself, God hands us over to what we have chosen and dramatizes it by male and female turning to images of themselves for sexual union, namely their own sex. Homosexuality is the judgment of God dramatizing the exchange of the glory of God for images of ourselves.


I'm sorry for the long post. It's quite an important subject, I believe. This isn't really a debate topic, because everyone's just sharing their beliefs, no one's really debating. I don't mean to sound preachy, but I'm sharing what I believe.
I don't hate homosexuals and never will. I love them and want only to point them to Christ, who restores what we've distorted and corrupted.
So don't hear me isolating it as the worst of all sins. It is part of a brokenness that I share.
I know that I'm broken. I could give you specifics: they would have to do with anger, self-pity, lust. And I'm just wired to like certain sins a lot. I think it's partly genetic. I think it's partly family-based, and it's just me. I'm broken.
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QweefZilLa

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 1:23 am

Re: Homosexuality

^^ tl;dr this thread is gay jk but gay jokes are lame, cum on guys, we already had a tread about this
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ILikeMilk

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:45 am

Re: Homosexuality

ok here goes,
god gave us freewill, gay people choose(or are born, maybe) to have sex with the same gender.
if god didn't want people to be gay he wouldn't have given us freewill.
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Aaron5367

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 6:53 am

Re: Homosexuality

Topic merged with old topic.
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Fox_One

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 11:24 am

Re: Homosexuality

Just for a moment, let's try to lay aside personal opinions and notions of 'right' and 'wrong'. These are simply cultural connotations and don't really hold up across national, geographical, religious or chronological borders. Public opinion is always temporary.

Instead, let's try to examine the phenomenon of homosexuality from a very objective standpoint. Homosexuality is either:

A) A personal choice, an exercise of free will. If this is the case, then all responsibility for and consequences of this choice should be accepted by the person making the choice, be they 'good' or 'bad'. I find that complaining about the outcome of a personal choice is somewhat... childish. Rage against the machine if it makes you feel better; we all struggle with the obtuseness of humanity in our own way - but don't expect everyone to listen to you. You made your bed, now you have to lie in it.

-or-

B) The result of genetic programming, and therefore not under the individual's control. If this is the case, then it's akin to skin tone or hair color, and belittling or discriminating against someone for it is the same as racism. However, a Darwinist point of view would suggest that this genetic trait is flawed, because it does not contribute to the procreation and propagation of the species. Therefore it should eventually become an extinct branch of Homo Sapiens. Survival of the fittest.

-or-

C) It is a genetic predisposition similar to that which makes certain people more susceptible to diabetes, without necessarily making them diabetic. The genetic marker is therefore something of a wild card that can be affected by external influences (like diet) and passed on to future generations without being a definite evolutionary dead-end.
However, if this is the case it would suggest that homosexuality is a disease (like diabetes) that can be contracted later in life due to... exposure. Or something. I don't think this is really the connotation that the homosexual community is going for. You're sick. You need help.
_

I'm disregarding the potential that it is simply a mental disorder like schizophrenia, because that's very negative and there's no indication that homosexuals (in general) have damaged or limited mental functions. If you see another possibility I'd like to hear about it.
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Metroidude

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 2:09 pm

Re: Homosexuality

I have to agree with what Nazgul said. He said it perfectly, there's not really much more to add there.
So "ditto what Nazgul said".
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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 3:22 pm

Re: Homosexuality

I'd like to add a D.

Caused by environment. Either or while they're growing up due to an overbearing mother or an absent father. Or maybe due to peer groups of women while young or during sexual development.

@Metroidude / Nazgul: So if you think it's wrong, what do you think that means about homosexuals? Completely out of curiosity... Do you think they should all be sentenced to death, shunned, or let be? Do you also believe they're going to hell?

Ninja edit: The reason I'm asking is that there's a strong difference between believing homosexuality is morally wrong and hating / being fearful of homosexuals.
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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 4:49 pm

Re: Homosexuality

True dat. ^

I agree with Nazgul and metoi, but honestly I believe they should just be left alone. Other than the usual shunning if they step outside the normal social bounds that is.
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Nazgul

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 9:12 pm

Re: Homosexuality

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Aaron5367

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Post Tue Nov 27, 2012 10:21 pm

Re: Homosexuality

Thanks for your sane answer. I was afraid I came off as accusatory.
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Metroidude

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:00 am

Re: Homosexuality

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maro_1

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:32 am

Re: Homosexuality

I feel like this is going to morph into a religious debate.

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Nazgul

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:52 am

Re: Homosexuality

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maro_1

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2012 11:54 am

Re: Homosexuality

nazgul, one question. What section of the forums is this thread in?

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Post Wed Nov 28, 2012 12:03 pm

Re: Homosexuality

it's in the Core section.
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