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Knights of Reason - Forums • View topic - Debt Ceiling time again!
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Debt Ceiling time again!

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Pbhead

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Post Fri Sep 13, 2013 10:55 am

Debt Ceiling time again!

This is my favorite time of the year, In about one month, we will have run out of money about 6 months ago. Because that makes sense.

So. basically. in a 2-1 margin, Americans oppose raising the debt limit.

http://firstread.nbcnews.com/_news/2013 ... iling?lite

Which, is nice, because it means most Americans agree with the president, who said:

“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure, It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Leadership means that ‘the buck stops here.’ Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better. I therefore intend to oppose the effort to increase America’s debt limit.” -- Senator Barack Obama, 2006

Yet somehow, someone will try and compare the situation to "congress not paying the bills it has racked up."

But its more like Congress going to the credit card company and asking for the umpteenth time to raise their credit limit, because they maxed out their credit card again... except they are the credit card company. Because giving a few hundred people who only care about promising enough crap to get (re)elected both access to the credit card, and the ability to vote on how much they get to spend on that card just seemed like a great idea at the time I suppose.

"When the people find that they can vote themselves money, that will herald the end of the republic." --Benjamin Franklin
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Post Tue Sep 17, 2013 2:38 am

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

Given that my current financial well being is closely linked to the stability of the USD and the Eurozone, I'd prefer for the debt ceiling to be raised again, but also for us to establish a budget with some level of balance such that our debt isn't increasing at the current rate. If we *don't* raise the debt ceiling, we're throwing the markets into a panic, and given the US's central role in the global economy, that's a very, very dangerous proposition if we're not balancing the budget.

The East Asian currencies are each having various difficulties (INR is a mess, the Yuan's tied very closely to the US debt, and the Japanese market is still rather shaky.) The Euro is relatively strong, but it seems like the EU too focused on keeping certain members afloat right now to be able to stabilize the global economy in its own right. Everything's so interconnected that the moment the US government refuses to raise the debt ceiling, exchange rates will start sliding around as people try to figure out what the credit worthiness of the debt sold 'round the world is.

The real problem is that Congress can't figure out what very significant parts of the expenditure to cut, instead choosing to split hairs on economically insignificant but socially contentious line items.
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Post Tue Sep 17, 2013 1:03 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

Hi Rev.

One of the biggest parts of negotiation is understanding what the other side actually wants.

You say "I'd prefer for the debt ceiling to be raised again..." but in reality what is important to you is that the debt ceiling not be reached.

Do you see that? raising the debt ceiling is /an/ solution, but is not the thing you are actually worried about. If a computer programmer introduced a bug into the treasuries computer systems that caused 100 billion to magically be deposited every week... that would be /an/ solution as well. (effectively monetizing of the debt, like the whole trillion platinum dollar coin thing) Or Congress could pass a bill immediately ending all social security, welfare, and medicare payments. That would be /an/ solution to not smacking into the debt limit as well.

Some solutions are better than others, but solutions never the less.

(And , as I like to say, nukes are ALWAYS a solution to the problem. always. Not necessarily the best solution, but always a solution. Think about it. Except cockroaches. Nukes cant solve cockroaches... but it is the exception that proves the rule.)

So right now the words coming from the white house is "we will not negotiate."

Thus, what is going on right now is that there is nothing being done to figure out motivations, goals, solutions. None of that stuff.

So republicans are all, raise the ceiling in exchange for delaying/ending obamacare. (which last time i checked, 56% of Americans don't like obamacare)... but there is nothing at all coming from the other side... And obama is saying "republicans are demanding 100%..."... but thats because he hasn't said, "10/90%?" to which republicans can reply 80/20%... and so forth.

And putin cant really jump in to save us this time.

Edit: Most in-depth thing I have read about this so far: http://thf_media.s3.amazonaws.com/2013/pdf/bg2844.pdf
"Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot."
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Post Tue Oct 01, 2013 10:29 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

Merry Government shutdown everybody!

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Post Sat Oct 05, 2013 3:51 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

"Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot."
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Rev

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Post Wed Oct 09, 2013 5:55 am

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

I didn't even consider fixing the deficit to be a solution, because that'll never happen in time.

And wow. They actually shut down. Congrats America. Show your leadership!
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Shadow

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Post Wed Oct 09, 2013 1:36 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

My question is this- What is better: do we respect the parties that are standing on what they think is the right thing to do, or do we get annoyed because they can't accept any compromise?
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Post Thu Oct 10, 2013 9:51 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

It's not about what anyone thinks is the right thing to do, it's about actually fixing shit. Opinions are irrelevant.
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Post Wed Oct 16, 2013 2:09 am

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

"Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot."
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Metroidude

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Post Wed Oct 16, 2013 7:47 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

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Rev

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Post Thu Oct 17, 2013 8:07 am

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

Yay. I'm not going to have to eat boiled monopoly money.
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Pbhead

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Post Thu Oct 17, 2013 12:24 pm

Re: Debt Ceiling time again!

Yay! The republicans have accomplished nothing but disillusion their base, turn off independents, and get 3 billion dollars in earmarks to the senate minority leader!


and yet, they are still the ones not taxing wheelchairs... so curse the first-past-the-post spoiler effect which makes third parties counterproductive and useless! (see: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s7tWHJfhiyo )

Ill just go off and form my own country now I thinks. That will surely fix the deep divides in our nation!
"Persons attempting to find a motive in this narrative will be prosecuted; persons attempting to find a moral will be banished; persons attempting to find a plot in it will be shot."

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